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AFL football betting
testimonials
2004 season


Most recent testimonials are at the top.

AFL 2003 season testimonials

AFL 2002 season testimonials

Unlike some businesses, we do not write our own testimonials! This shabby practice deserves to be exposed wherever it can be shown to be happening. Lay-out has been standardised and punctuation and spelling corrected in some cases for readability. Some members of our tennis 'insiders' mailing list may appear more than once because of frequent communication amongst the group.

If you are genuinely considering purchasing a Smartgambler AFL betting package we can in special circumstances put you in touch with any of the people whose comments are quoted on this page. Smartgambler thanks these people most sincerely for their kind words and will happily remove their comments if requested.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 26 September 2004 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Grand Final

Straight out and at the line...nice! What a way to finish a very, very good season. 16.5% POT and a very nice increase in the bank. I'll just add my overall results, now 3 years in a row!

(Gives table of results.)

Thanks again for the fun and advice from you all...see you next year!

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2004 6:48 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] Grand Final

Yes...well done Guy and how fitting for a Tinhead overlay to be the final winner. What a year. Many thanks Guy and Stephen; no matter what system one used I'm sure we all had a very profitable year.

Cheers, Brett.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2004 5:46 PM
Subject: [afl_list] Sincere Thanks

I would like to pass on a hearty thanks to Steve et al for a very successful season and I look forward to plundering the bookies yet again in 2005. Great work by the whole team - goodness knows what I'll do next weekend!

Kindest Regards, Tony.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] Grand Final

Well done Glenn, Tony, Max and Guy with his fearless "over 39.5 win" at $11 and "changing of the guard" prediction... and all the rest (not me) who followed Tinhead. (Port an 18% overlay in the end at $ 2.80)

A good finals series for Tinhead, only excelled by Guy's selections. Cheers to Tinhead and Guy for an enjoyable and profitable season.

Possibly the best season for Tinhead in the four I've been following.

Irakli.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: [afl_list] Week 4

No obvious bets on the Grand Final? What are people doing for fun? A very nice (maybe conservative) return of 45% over the series so far. Maybe I'll stick with that.

Glenn.

("The series" refers to the AFL finals matches. Subsequent to this e-mail it became apparent that Port Adelaide was an overlay and a popular bet with the AFL group.)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2004 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] Prelim finals

Had the Cats on the Line as well as Head to Head, so pretty well broke even. Would have been a great score if the Cats had been just slightly more accurate! And Tinhead had it pegged pretty well!

Can't complain though, had a great year. Now the long, long wait till the 2005 season!

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 19 September 2004 1:20 AM
Subject: [afl_list] Missing excel sheets from week 01

Hi all.

Once again an interesting year with good profits on AFL, but since I would like to try to optimize my "operation" for next year I will do some analyses during winter (summer down under I guess ;-)

But - I am still missing Steve's excel-file from week 1 back in March. Does anyone by chance still have it ?

Thanks, Jorgen.

(Yes, we have an AFL subscriber from Denmark! He even spotted an arbitrage for us in our first season.)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Week 3

Another observation on Tony's rule, and it has made me a bit of money this year (tks Tony):

(Gives table of results)

TinHead, on average, when the tip is correct, is 13 points under. If he tips Brisbane to win by 20, then on average, Brisbane will win by 33 points. If the line is10 pts, then you have a 23 pt margin. Based on 3 years data, roughly, if you follow the 10 pt rule, you will win 75% of the time at 1.90. And at that, you will consistently make money.

Using Sportsbet, I add a few points to this and as you can see, won 81% of the time at 1.65 for 23% profit on turnover. For every 1,000 aud bet, I made 230 aud. Because I add a few pts, my result is consistent with Tony's 33% POT.

You need to be careful on the other side of the bet... if the losing side loses, then they can tend to give it away and lose by a lot. Hence, the negative bet has more risk. I won't explain it in detail, just see the attached histogram - it is not normal, and by that I mean statisically normal.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, 15 September 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Week 3

I've used the 10 point rule all year, so I believe I am well placed to comment.

Where a team's line is more than 10 points greater than Tinhead's recommended margin I have a bet. This approach returned over 33% profit on turnover for the season using half kelly betting.

Examples - if Tinhead predicts Brisbane to win by 1 point then I would back the opposition if they had 11.5 points head start. If Tinhead predicted Brisbane to win by 50 points I would back them if they had to give away 39.5 points head start.

The reason why I use this approach is when a team are the underdog you get a head start (as Geelong will be this weekend) and when they are favourites although you give away the start, short priced favourites generally give away 20-30 points and most of the season they won by 50 or more.

I posted a spreadsheet with the year's results a few weeks ago and I suggest you look at it as the returns have been great - many many times the cost of the subscription.

Regards, Tony.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, 31 August 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] Another good year

Hi Glenn.

I don't think your results were all that much different, if we compare like with like:

282% H2H, Full Kelly, Const Bank, Favs Only
817% H2H, Full Kelly, Const Bank, All Overlays
515% Lines, Full Kelly, Const Bank, All Overlays

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 30 August 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Rd 22

Hi guys.

Have just joined the tipping service and dabbled my feet with Geelong at the line of -28.5 for a nice first off collect. Will get a bit more courageous in weeks to come.

Also agree with the comment on Global, but have found IAS quite competitive also.

Chris.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 29 August 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: [afl_list] Another good year

Well, another good year. I have just had a look at the results -TinHead has been consistent with 117, 117 and 119 picks over the past 3 years.

My overall return was 15.7% Profit on Turnover, now averaging 12.4% over the past 3 years. All of the systems did well as shown below.

(Gives table)

Max, I did a rough calculation on my bank increase. For the Kelly system (Favs >57.5%, plus some other rules), the increase was 210% and for the Home Favourites, 270%.

My records on Margins and Lines is not that good, but was around 320%. Nowhere near what you got, so next year I might become more adventurous?

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] seminars

I'll second that... it was well worth the trip from Sydney. Good to meet Steve and the others too.

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: [afl_list] seminars

All members,

I would like to thank Steve Clarke and his crew at Swinburne for his statistical seminars held on Friday August the 6th. They were both interesting and informative and well worth attending. A good day was had by all that attended.

Once again many thanks and well done!

Regards, Denis.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 1 August 2004 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] 10 Point Rule and Half Kelly

Max,

Very impressive results. I did a comparison (as close as I could) for my 3 systems,

Full Kelly betting. Kelly (>57.5%>0% overlays), bank increase of 80%

Home Favourites (>57.5%,>0+7.5% overlays), bank increase of 217%

Margins and Lines, increase of 31%

For the last 2, I just started that at Rd 10 and 11, so I am just refining things, but I like Tony's approach with the lines.

For this year, running at 13.1% Profit on Turnover. This tells me that for every $1,000 of bank, it has increased to $5,780. Great result.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] 10 Point Rule and Half Kelly

Tony,

Impressive results and accords with all the data that I have. For example: Select if line is 10 pts below TH. Lets say TH selects 20 pts. You bet if the line is 10 pts. TH is normally average 13 pts under when the selection is correct. So, if correct, the win is 33 pts and the line is 10 pts. That is a 23 pt margin.

From my data over the last 3 years, that margin gives a 92% chance of a win. Given that TH gets about 67% right, then you would expect a win ratio of 62%. Win ratio here is 69%, a bit better than what I'd expect, but certainly in the ballpark. By the way, win ratio of 69% at 1.90 gives a 33% POT. Wallah!!

There is the little complication that there are non-favourites in there, but interestingly, all bets on the non-favourites won! Also, home sides won 63% and away sides won 73%, opposite of the general results. Strange, I wonder why?

Anyway, I think that you are onto a winner here. So much so that in fact that I am looking for opportunities: I bet StKilda -7.5 vs. Essendon at SportOdds at 1.62. An average price of 1.61 will break-even, so I will try to stay above that. Anyway, lets see how that works. Apart from Bris vs. Rich and Adel vs. Freo, they have all been good. I get a bit cautious on the non-favourites as if the winners win, then they can run away with it.

Good stuff, thanks.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2004 9:57 PM
Subject: [afl_list] 10 Point Rule and Half Kelly

Ok, I've zapped up a spreadsheet using the "10 point rule" (where the bookies differ with their 1.90 margin by more than 10 points from Tinhead).

An impressive set of results for 2004 too. The starting bank almost 350% greater than in March. A couple of things to note:

1) If there were two concurrent games the half kelly bet is based on the bank before either game started. However whenever possible a most up to date bank was used (eg. if there were bets on the Saturday day and night the night bet was based on the bank AFTER the result of the day match).

2) Some margins may not have been commonly available (eg. I may have taken -10.5 but they changed to -12.5 soon after)

3) There could be human error in here as it was a completely manual process for all matches for 2004.

4) 1.90 was used for all prices, however I do know a number of cases where slightly better was available (eg. 1.92).

5) Minor point - but the Melbourne HOME game played in Brisbane shows as an away game in my spreadsheet.

6) If the first two rounds were ignored the profit would be substantially higher as there were 5 losses and 1 win in that stretch (I recall the Ozmium soccer package suggesting no bets until a few rounds had been played so maybe this is something prudent here too).

7) I've started with a nominal $5,000 bank.

Hope this info assists with your punting future. I know I will continue to plunder based on the 42 bets this year and a healthy 30% POT.

Long live Tinhead.

Cheers, Tony.

(Tony's data is available upon request. E-mail guywest_at_ozmium_dot_com_dot_au and ask for "margin bets 2004 10 points" spreadsheet.)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 26 July 2004 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] 10 Point Rule and Half Kelly

FWIW, I've been been using a Full Kelly on Lines (Constant Bank) since R10. Including rounds 1-9, profit is 446% - see "Lines All" below. However, "H2H All" is in front, at 578% profit (Head-to-head, Full Kelly, Constant Bank). The 3 banks I'm actually running are the H2H All, Lines All, and H2H Fav (Favs only, Full Kelly, Constant Bank).

Cheers, Max.

(I'll try and get a copy of Max's chart to add to the AFL section, it's quite impressive. Editor.)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: [afl_list] Lines and Margins

Tony, Yes, I've had a dabble at the lines and margins since Round 11. 11 wins from 14 bets. I also use SportOdds to select my own lines sometimes. And, I add a bit of margin eg. I went to put a Port Adelaide bet on for -25.5 at 1.53, but they withdrew the lines about 20 mins before the start of the game, so missed out! The stats that I have run suggest that you will make money on this using TinHead numbers. When he is right (ie picks the win), he is generally about 13 pts below the actual score. I put a small bank in, and it is doing well.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: [afl_list] Round 17 conjecture

Yep, fantastic round, only lost a small amount on the Port line (they would have been in big trouble had the Eagles accuracy been a bit better!) Second best round ever, closely following R3 where we had a great score on Geelong at $2.20 with a big overlay.

Glenn, I agree that it's certainly time to think very seriously about profit protection. It still only needs 1-2 bad rounds to wipe out most of your profit - or even send you into a loss! I'm using the constant bank this year, which in effect is a method of protection (last year I used full bank, and went into loss at R19). Other methods could be to cut down the Full Kelly if you're using it, to half or quarter etc. Or just cut down your bank etc, depending on your wagering method and preferences.

Some newbies make the mistake of considering their profits as "the bookies money" - do that, and it will end up their money! Your profits are cash in your pocket. Best thing a newbie could perhaps do is withdraws all their profits, and stick them into their bank account or pay off some bills. That's when they'll realise it's now their cash. Then decide if they are going to pull it all back out for some "do or die" "broke or rich" splurge.

Cheers, Max


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Round 17 conjecture

Hi Glenn.

The 10 point rule not quite good enough for every bet this weekend with Port not covering the line. Got Kangaroos, Collingwood and Geelong though, so a nice weekend indeed. I'm very keen to get the bookies lines for Rounds 1 through to the Round 10 inclusive as I have kept records since Round 10 and have more then trebled my bank since then. With only 21 bets it is too small a sample to be putting up a huge bank, however if similar results can be drawn from 40 odd bets I'd be more comfortable sharing my thoughts.

16 winners and 5 losers for the 10 point rule since Round 11. Although Port disappointed me a big increase on my original bank this weekend is nothing to sneeze at. 8 from 8 in the tipping too means I didn't lose any more ground. Anybody who has the bookies lines (for the 1.90 bet) for the first 10 rounds and who is willing to share it?

Cheers, Tony.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Round 17 conjecture

Wow, what a week. Kelly, home favourites and lines all came in (well, just about). That has well and truly restored the balances, now to think about profit protection for the year?

Pity, should have followed Guy's suggestion, the multi would have paid about $5.67 - maybe not enough to entice me into going for the whole 8 though.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, 18 June 2004 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [afl_list] Saints

As a lot of you know I follow the +10 line rule every single week and am having a very successful 2004 season.

I will be on the Saints in a big way this week. My opinion or logic (which doesn't count for much).

1) Last week St Kilda were back to Melbourne after a hard road trip to Sydney

2) Both Sydney and the Saints were "flat" last week indicating that the big match may have taken more out of each team than first thought

3) Hawthorn had been revved up by all the publicity last week and performed admirably (close but no cigar). They will probably return to their horrible selves again this week.

4) A close loss to Carlton doesn't rate highly in my book (Carlton winning a few but against ordinary opposition)

5) Two losses will be enough to inspire the Saints again

6) Unlike Essendon, close wins are not enough for the Saints. 100 point margins are something they strive for.

Not forgetting that two weeks ago the bookies were running prices on "will St Kilda remain undefeated" this week they are running prices on "will Hawthorn win another match". IMHO 41.5 points (or seven goals) is probably one of the better line bets I have seen all year.

Regards, Tony.

(Tony was right. Editor.)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: Round 11

Hi all. Had a smashing weekend!

Using the H2H Kelly Favourites, bets on Lions, Kangas and Cats increased the bank by well over 30%.

The H2H Kelly All Overlays were spectacular with 55%+ profit.

Small losses on underdogs Eagles and Hawks were well offset by the Blues who I had at $7, while the 3 favourites Bris, Roos and Cats pushed it further ahead. The Demons came through as well, and at $3.05 were the topping on the cake.

The only match I didn't bet on was the Swans versus the Saints, as neither produced an overlay.

In the Lines Kelly, all but the Hawks made it within the points for 70%+ profit!

For me that's two great rounds in a row, and at half way through the season, it's been a stunner!

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, 8 June 2004 3:51 PM
Subject: Benchmarks

Hi Glenn.

When I started in 2002, I decided to bet only on favourites that had an overlay, but since then I've also seen some value in betting on the underdogs. When the favourites bomb out, the underdogs return some very good compensation.

Last round I had small losses on Eagles and Hawks, but made a "killing" on Carlton at $7.00 and Melb at $3.05.

The bank where I bet on all overlays (favs and underdogs) is up by about 366%, of which about 120% came from the underdogs. And of course, the bets on underdogs are a lot smaller than on the favourites, because the overlay is determined by the probability of a win, as well as the price available.

I doubt that I'll ever find one system suited to all seasons. At the moment, I'm concentrating on reducing risk, but I have lots more studying to do yet!

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, 19 June 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Cats Win

Yahoo!

Another top result for Tinhead.

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Round 11

Hi.

Well on the northern hemisphere "we" had Bris, Kangas, Geelong and (the early warning from Pinnacle) Melbourne, so no complaints from my side of the globe.

BR, Jorgen.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Round 11

Hi Max.

Same here. The Kelly Favs had Brisbane, Kangas and Geelong. The Home Favs had Brisbane and Kangas. I put a few rules around Tony's 10 pt and took Brisbane and Geelong at the line. Had a dabble on Hawks, but kept away from Freo/Melb.

I have had a look at overlays on Non-favs, but cannot see any long term value in consistent betting. From the analysis for 2 1/2 seasons, have refined the criteria, now it is >57.5% win and >0% overlays. My bank increased about 8%, but remember that I use a very conservative bank strategy (maybe keeping too much in reserve).

A very good year so far as well, with profits from this half-year already more than 02 and 03 combined. But, I have won the last 6/7 weeks. Long term average is 2/3, so beware the next 2 weeks (and a Round 19)!

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 1:38 AM
Subject: Benchmarks

Max,

I was looking for some benchmarks to compare against. I had a look at my bank increase this year, and my Kelly favourites is up 53%, but this is confused by the fact that I only ever bet 30% or so of the bank. My Others (lines, multi's etc) is up 117%, but the bank is smaller.

The numbers get confused by the bank size and how conservative you want to be by putting stuff aside to avoid a wipe-out. But it is hard to compare bank increase. Friend of mine is into racing, and said that professional punters are doing ok if they are returning between 8-12% profit on turnover. So far this year I am 15.6%. Does anyone have any other performance data? I just wonder if I am too conservative?

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: Home Favs bets this week and warning

Hi Guy, all.

Like most, I did very well this weekend, and so far I'm having a terrific season, although I know only too well that sooner or later there will probably be a black run. Then I hope that changes I've made will help protect profits to a degree. Main bank (Constant Kelly Favourites) is up some 130%, while second bank (Constant Kelly All) is up 250%. Third bank - started only this last round - is a "Constant Kelly Line All" (constant bank, kelly method, line betting, all overlays both favs and underdogs). This of course is based on the calcs that Steve provided us with for determining the overlay for a given line, and it's had a very lucky start, showing 55% profit from one round! Those that were with us last year know only too well that when we see the dark side, much of those profits could evaporate - and quite possibly a big chunk of the bank as well. That's when any system you use will be taxed to the max!

You'll remember I'm a big fan of the Full Monty - the most significant change to my system for this season was a change from using Full Bank to a Constant Bank. This was implemented to reduce volatility, and to minimise the damage when we hit the dark side. Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but thought I'd throw in that reminder for those who joined us this year. But hey, so far this season has been an absolute ripper! Long may it last!

Cheers, Max.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: GUY's AFL suggestions

Yes Guy , excellent selections this week.. Just added to the best weekend I've ever had on AFL... It's almost come to the point, where I hang out for your selections rather than that of Tinheads.

But having chickened out on the Lions Index (as I'd had so much on them otherways, my stomach was churning 20 mins before kick off), but still scraped in the 40+ ($6), and all my Swans/Lions hook ups (ML, Pts, 24+), if only the Swans had also collected the 40+ I would have saluted a 30/1 double for $500. Ah well, I guess that's just being greedy.

Looking forward to this weeks over/unders, as I would be playing it very quietly, not wanting to give back too much from this week.

Ajax.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: GUY's AFL suggestions

Guy - nice set of margin overs/unders last round. Hope you're able to keep posting them on the list. Glenn's Tinhead 5%/55% worked well too.

Regards, Bob


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 1:32 AM
Subject: Home Favs bets this week and warning

Great week. The fav's betting is off to a good start with 4/5 and the bank going from 1,000 to 1,381 (My betting bank was 70% of the bank, which turned out to be almost the whole bank anyway). I ended up taking Brisbane based on comments from the group. Thanks. Kelly was good also, 3/3.

Guy made a comment about high overlays in a recent post, and I have said that "Also, I have commented that as the overlay gets bigger, then the probability of winning goes down; the "they" must know something TinHead does not know theory: eg. Brisbane last Saturday." Looking at the high overlays for home teams 2002-04 (>20% and for win chance >57.5%), then the home teams are 14 for 19 for 73.7% win ratio, and most of the odds were 1.80+ into the 2$ range. Seems that high overlays that lose are mainly away teams.

This week gave the bank a healthy boost, and now running at 15.6% POT for '04.

Glenn.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 29 April 2004 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Points tipping:

Re: Possible good bets this weekend. As mentioned a few weeks ago in this forum, the POT for this Tinhead +10 point system over the past few years is showing about 10% .... better than a good kick up the pants. The Tinhead + 20 point margin bets are especially profitable and qualify as "super specials", albeit there don't tend to be many of these in a season.

Irakli.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2004 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: Challenge

Great start to the weekend from Tennis/NRL Tony and "King of the Roughies" Guy.

AFL Not everyday one is given a 15/1 winner that wins by the length of the straight (or at least 19 points).

NRL Tony home with his "certain" 2.5% winner to kick start the kitty for the weekend tennis. Tony adds the icing to the cake with Weiner coming come overnight.

What more can one ask for ..... only the AFL list but winners galore in NRL and tennis ... should encourage more cross fertilisation with benefits to everyone. Bring on Collingwood ... $ 1.62 at Norm Short looks the best.

Irakli.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Last word?

Re: Money Managment strategies...forum input appreciated. Pat is in Melbourne, and I have had a pleasant evening listening to the footy, reading Stefan's paper (from the Swinburne site) and having the odd drop of grape juice! For those of you who have read all the recent mails, you need to be careful that I am not maximizing profits. I operate in a particular spectrum of betting possibilities, one that is comfortable for me. I do not back TinHead's non-favourites, and scale down bets when the overlay's get >15-20% (since the probability of them winning reduces). Why do I do this? Because I prefer to use the data to make consistent money by winning more frequently. I do this by aiming for >70% wins and >1.50 average return, and do this by targeting >55% and > 5% overlay.

As Stefan's paper shows, I am not maximizing profits, and as Guy and others have pointed out, I leave money on the table by not having a go at good overlays when the chance of a win is, say, 40%. Steve and TinHead get it wrong 30% of the time, so there are chances that the 40% probability team will win, and win at a 3$ price. You can probably do better than me: getting it 50% right at the price of 2.20 will give you a 10% POT. (Or 40% at 3.00 will give you 20%). The difference is that you have greater losing streaks, something my personality wants to avoid.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading Stefan's paper...made me think some more. I'm comfortable that I can consistently make money now, and am comfortable putting big bets on and not worrying about it if it loses. This is the 3rd season, so it does take some time for initial non-bettors, and ones that do not like losing money!! This is a fairly efficient market, so taking "candy from the baby" is not on. However, my actual return based on my bank in 2003 (tough year) was almost 25%. In the big scheme of things, not bad, if the risk is manageable, which I believe it is.

To do well here takes a little dedication, and some discipline. What I have talked about suits me, but is by no means the optimum. Listen to the fund managers: risk tolerance! That's enough........the balcony and another red beckon!

Glenn.


 

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